You want a raise? Janet says it’s a simple cycle - “Take more responsibility, show off your skillset, develop your reputation, people decide they want to work with you, and that drives raises and promotions.”
Not everyone has worked for a company that sells Nuclear Submarines and Gulfstream jets, but our Special Guest Janet Guertin is that special someone. After a successful career with General Dynamics (global aerospace and defense company that manufactures everything from combat vehicles to nuclear-powered submarines), she founded The Dividend Factor where she and her team pursue and capture Defense Industry contracts. She's also a certified leadership speaker and coach with a John Maxwell Team, one of the largest leadership training organizations in the world.
She says, “We cannot lead others until we can lead ourselves. If you’re going to work with a team, and you want a lot in return, you’ll have to give them everything you’ve got.”
“I've told a guy, “Hey, you don't understand my market value. This is simple - I want to be paid commensurate with my market value.”
From being a life-giving leader and how faith gets you through to how to deal with a toxic workplace, Janet has some bang-up advice for us all.
If you enjoy this episode and it inspired you in some way, I'd love to hear about it and know your biggest takeaway. Take a screenshot, post it to your Instagram Stories and tag me, @amandalefever!
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Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Raise Up Podcast. The only spot on the internet, where you can learn from industry experts, how to get a raise at your job. If it's your first time, welcome. We're so glad you're here. And if you're a returning Raise Up Nation OG, welcome back, and thank you. It is because of you that this podcast now has a global reach. Can you believe it? We have people listening now from 10 different countries. It's so cool to say that because together we are helping so many people. So, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'm Amanda LeFever, your host, and we have a fantastic guest this week. I'm pumped for you to meet her, her name is Janet Guertin. Janet is a successful consultant in the defense industry. After a career with General Dynamics, the global aerospace and defense company, that manufacturer manufacturers, I keep getting caught up on that word, everything from Gulf Stream business jets and combat vehicles to nuclear-powered submarines. She founded the Dividend Factor where she and her team provide capture planning and pursuit management on defense industry contracts. Doesn't she sound so cool? My gosh. I'm not even done. She's also a certified leadership speaker and coach with John Maxwell Team. One of the largest leadership training organizations in the world. Janet, thank you so much for being on the show.
Oh, thank you for having me. It's great to be here. Thank you.
Yeah, I'm really excited. So, first I have to say a career in the defense industry and at General Dynamics sounds pretty exciting. What was your favorite part of that chapter of your life?
Oh my goodness. It is fascinating to be part of the defense industry in any capacity, but to do business development for one of the greatest companies, that I believe is in America, is just an honor, and it's all been stretching me through my whole life. I'm still working with General Dynamics very closely. So, while they do all those cool, sexy things, you can imagine. I landed in composites, which led me to military shelters, tactical shelters, and the favorite part of my career is the international business that I was able to participate in. Love, love, doing deals with other militaries. We've done some deals with Japan and India, so it's just been places I wouldn't have gone on vacation for sure but got to go over and meet some phenomenal leaders. So, that's really been special, but yeah, shelters is kind of my gig.
That's amazing. So, you've been to Japan then?
I have, we did a deal. I was actually doing the chemical and biological detection equipment group at that time. And, since General Dynamics has sold that to Chemring, right here in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I lived and, we did some deals to help them when they had that subway. You might remember that attack a long time ago. So, we have some equipment that can help detect and heal. And I think in this time of COVID, it's wonderful to know that there is a technology base that is looking for ways to detect biological agents and can certainly help them steer what the plan of action is for correction and budget. That's not me, I'm not the expert. I'm the humbled one that don't, I don't know what they're talking about after the time that in English.
That's amazing. So, as we talked about earlier, we're both part of the John Maxwell team and our friend, Mr. John C. Maxwell has had a huge impact on my life. And a lot of the listeners are right in the middle of trying to be better leaders in their workplaces. Is there anything you want to share with our listeners about your leadership journey that might help them out?
Oh yes. John Maxwell is amazing. So, you can't go wrong with any of his teachings. His teachings are simple to understand and difficult to apply when the pressure is on. But leading ourselves, well, of course is the biggest challenge. We cannot lead others until we lead ourselves well. And last year, John, released a book, developing the leader within you 2.0, the second version of that. And I had a lot of fun helping teams through that teaching seasoned teams by going through the book and what we call masterminding, and really digging in and seeing how we can apply those lessons. But it is essential unless your life is something other people want to follow. You won't be able to lead well.
That's true. What do you feel like your biggest takeaway was from that book?
Purposeful priorities, kind of a re-branding of his roles and responsibilities chapter, but I kind of took off on that and added it to my Franklin planner and did a refresh on the purposeful priorities and really looking at my time unit as a whole. It's not that time we manage, right? It's our priorities that we manage.
I've never heard that before. So, what does he, how does he teach that? What is it? What's the approach?
The chapter on developing the leader within you has to do with assessing your roles and responsibilities. So, if you're a mom, if you're a wife, if you're a career person and looking at, you know, what you only you can do, and then taking it to the next level, what do you need to remove from your life? What's not a priority that only you can do? What's something you might be able to delegate. So, it's a really, just a good introspective look. And then by adding it to purposeful priorities, I look at it as, you know, what are my passions? What are the things in life that I want my life to be made of? And so, a long time ago, when I picked up a planner that looks like I really want to understand the globe. I like global culture and lessons in that. So, I made that a priority. It was a lens from which I made the decisions to go to places like Israel and Japan, and do business deals because I had already set that as one of my life priorities.
I love that Israel and Egypt. Oh my gosh. And Japan? You've been all over.
I went to Israel for sure. Seven, six times, I guess. But yet that's incredible. And I believe it was from the practice of saying, okay, you know, what am I want my life to be made of? I want to understand different cultures from their perspective. So, yeah, it makes it easy. So, you get that opportunity. Like I had to go to Africa on Safari with eight women for 10 days, and it was through that lens. I've made it a priority. Yes, I'm in.
So, do you also make priorities at work as well? Does it teach how to do that as well? What is, what is something that he teaches?
Well, as far as priorities go as it relates to the Dividend Factor, I always prioritize my clients and their priorities, and the timing. And is there, is there an overlap, so, do I need to bring in extra help or is this something I better say no to? And it's not uncommon for me to decline work, because I want to make sure that everything we do, we have the bandwidth to do it with excellence.
How do you think that this applies to people that are kind of working in corporate America, and asking for a raise or feeling like they're up for a promotion that they're doing so much? How do they prioritize their time and kind of be more purposeful?
I've always seen it as creating a circle of excellence. Even when I was doing jobs that I felt weren't up to what my potential was, but if I went into it thinking, well, if my potential is so much greater then I can do this job with excellence. So, I took on more responsibilities even without the pay or the title and created that circle of excellence. Well, that's where you get your reputation from, and it is also where people decide if they want to work with you or not. So, not getting frustrated when you're not at the level that you want to be, but keeping the vision that if I am worth more, if I am, if I have higher potential than this I can certainly knock this out. and show my skill set by going above and beyond, then you step into the responsibilities that drive raises, that drive promotions. and people want to work with you. So, I can honestly say that the team I work with at General Dynamics, when I went independent, hired me back as a consultant because of that foundation, that if I'm going to work with them, I'm going to give them everything I got.
Right, and you had a great reputation with them, it sounds like, and they love to work with you so well. It sounds like it. I think that whenever we're thinking about raises, at least for me, it was never really about, whether or not people like to work with me. It was always about what I was doing, and how I was performing, and what I was putting out this, not level of collaboration, but this environment almost of collaboration seems like it's absolutely necessary in order for, to get raises and promotion. What, what do you think?
Yes, I think you've hit it on the head. I think we can look at our responsibility and do that with excellence, but if we're not bringing that energy and helping to drive a culture of creativity and growth, then we're not adding that value that we want to get paid extra for.
Have you ever found yourself working in a toxic work environment? We have a lot of people that, they have insecure or bad managers. And I don't know. I feel like they deserve a raise, but they know that their boss isn't going to give them like a fair shake. So, I'm not sure how? You know, it sounds like you have a good answer.
I have been there and it's extremely frustrating. It was not General Dynamics. I actually left the company, and just to grow and do some other things. And I did land myself into a couple of different situations of the toxic environment, and bosses that were insecure and, one in particular stands out because he was just angry and he said, I'm going to turn up the heat and see what frogs jump out, you know, that kinda thing. Man, Oh, yes. I just remember, I am spiritual. Thank you. I do have a relationship with God. And so, during that time, you really do draw on that extra strength that isn't within us, all of us, but as a person of faith, as John would say, that helped me to try to gain wisdom and to shut my mouth. Because my natural instinct, as you can tell already, I like to talk, I like to engage in dialogue that might address this negative behavior, but there are people, as Dr. Henry Cloud teaches that are narcissists. There are people that are truly sick in the workplace. And so, dealing with that kind of a toxic environment is very dangerous. But on a more benign level, there are managers that are just insecure because they in over their heads and they're inexperienced and they, they don't want to be transparent. They don't want to be vulnerable with their team, which is essential to being a great leader. But if you're in a situation where you've got an insecure boss and you're doing well, and they're afraid to look bad because you might know more, you might go further. It's best to just be wise in that case, watch your words carefully. I left an opportunity and I've told the guy specifically, you don't understand my market value. And when it comes to raises, I think it's essential. You can never ask for a raise because you need a raise because you've made financial decisions that aren't healthy. It's all about your market value. And every time I was interviewing or looking for a job, I would just say, I want to be paid commensurate with what my market value is for this position. And younger in my career, I would have been at the low end of that. And now I would expect to be at the high end of that because of the experience that I have. And I do believe that experience is essential in business, really in life, but in business, in particular, if you're looking at asking for a raise it's based upon experience that you have.
How do you think that people can improve their market value? I love that saying I've never heard a phrase like that before.
Thank you, well, today's easier than ever because of the internet and all kinds of studies out there. Certainly, LinkedIn is a place to gauge, you know, looking at common titles, looking at common responsibilities. So, if I was to, well just recently, somebody asked me about business development and the defense industry, and it's a very unique mix. Most people are either engineers or they're retired military people and I'm neither of those. So, again, I go back to, I do believe in God, I don't know how I got here, but it is all about understanding what the mission is. And so, that's why when I started the Dividend Factor, I wanted to leverage the capture management training that I've had because that's what they call winning business in the defense industry is called capture management. And of course, because everything tracks closely with our military acronyms and culture and authority. So, it's something where you really got to like that kind of structure. And so, I would just say, you know, research what's going on online in an industry with those titles, with those words sets and see, does that strike a passion in you?
I like that. So, you are dealing with engineers, retired military, and you said you're neither one of those types of personalities. So, that sounds like a very interesting mix of personality styles, is it?
It certainly is. And early on, I decided that my role, whether it be called sales back in the composites industry, I started in or marketing and today business development, my job is to communicate. So, I'm not there to solve the problem. I need to be able to articulate the problem. So, for my company, I represent the customer, and to the customer I represent the company and my job is to make the most efficient use of everybody's time. So, I will be matching the right technical people with the right technical people when the timing is right. So, it's just having that ability to listen, to know when, what you don't know. And the older I've gotten the easier it's gotten for me to know what I don't know and just be there. But, at first it was a little more difficult to say, I don't know, but I'll find out, but that truly is how I've ended up doing these amazing projects through the years that I've been technically underwhelming to the team, for sure.
But you have fantastic communication skills it sounds like.
Thank you, people skills, you know, you've really gotta be able to relate to those introverts that would rather just look at a chart and talk to you, but it's being able to just appreciate everybody's gifts, and where they're operating from, and try to pull it together.
How do you feel like you have grown in your, in your soft skills? It sounds like you are obviously very articulate and communicate well and you deal with different personalities. What is something that you have done that has helped you improve your communication?
I read a lot. I think that's essential pulling in from one what the author's telling you, but two just the function of reading and I've done electronic books and listening, which is great too, but I think it's essential to go ahead and buy some hard copies, and you know, really dig into them, and you can learn so much from other people's journeys. And when I started way back when I can tell you, there was a company called Career Track, and what really got me on the growth in my business career was buying those cassette tapes, dating myself, and listening to them on the way to work and just gaining insights from those people. One was called how to deal with difficult people, another was success self-programming, where I learned how to talk to myself differently. Earl Nightingale's was on The Strangest Secret, which was really, we are what we think about. So, through those, I really began the journey of self-improvement by learning from other people. And today it's no different with the books I bought joining John Maxwell's team, and just always looking for that next best book. And right now, the one I'm recommending and while John's books are all, and his latest one, Leader Shift, is very appropriate to this time. There's a simpler book out there called, The Life-Giving Leader by Tyler Reagin who runs catalysts. And I just love the thought of being a life giving leader, someone who gives hope to others who gives inspiration, who gives a positive energy, cause we all go to work and we can have the energy zapped out of us by, you know, what I call Eeyore, right, the donkey. So, yes, reading is essential in our, in our growth.
The Life Giving Leader, I love that. And then there's life giving people, I think too, just to kind of talk about that a little bit more. I think that you don't realize it until you're around someone that is just a life-giving person and it's sometimes you just are drawn to them. Like, I feel very awesome talking to you right now. Like I can tell that you're a life-giving person and it's really an amazing thing. Has that do you feel like you've always been that way or has it been kind of a journey for you?
Well, as a child, that energy was misplaced, but it was always there. It's like, fortunately God, you know, took me down a different road with my energy.
A lot of us have been there.
So, yes, the energy is there. It's now it's just pointed in a better direction.
That's awesome. So, we had a guest recently who talked about skill sets. He said that if I wanted to get a raise or promotion, should I try to get really good at like my current job, and just produce like crazy, or invest time learning the soft skills like leadership and team building that might be required for management. And this is kind of like a little pivot from those soft skills. So, I'm interested to hear what you think.
Well, I think our competency is what we bring. So, it's a given that we've got to be great at what we do. So, if I go to do a market assessment for a client in the defense industry, then I better get my butt to work reading those DOD budget justification documents that are not all to read. They're massive. But they're the essential part of doing a DOD market study. So, what I would say is your competence is something you should continue to refine. As I've gotten older, I have not shied away from software changes. I've got sisters who, you know, just didn't bother, but you know, fortunately by being with GD, in the beginning when technology was taking off, they always equipped us with new stuff. So, I've had a little advantage there to other folks my age, but I mean, as technology changes even faster for this generation, it's essential that you are at the top of your game, absolutely. Leadership, developing yourself to the best of your potential as it relates, not everybody's a leader. Some people want to contribute by supporting a leader that they respect, and in different capacities at different times, you know, we shift. So, yeah. Be at the top of your game for sure.
Have you experienced a leader that you just really wanted to be behind, and support before in your career?
Oh, absolutely. There's been a few, that have mentored me, and it's just amazing when you've got a mentor who's willing to invest in you. One of my favorites early on, well, it was a challenge. He was the vice president and general manager of one of the fabrication divisions of Spaulding, where I worked for a long time, 17 years. I left there, their vice president of sales and marketing to move on to the defense industry. Bob Shone was his name, great guy, and he would have me write out three solutions, one I like to talk, right? So, I'd go talk to him about problems. And he's like, this has gotta stop, you go write out three solutions, and work on your writing skills, and your problem-solving skills. And then we'll talk about the path forward. So, that discipline stayed with me. I would support him, you know, with whatever task or problems we were facing in that business unit.
Do you feel like it's because he gave you that type of attention or what were the qualities that you loved the most about him?
He was smart and so he could see through a lot of things that would hold others up. So, if it was a big problem, and it was, we decided to shut down one of our factories, and that's hard. Where you've got EPA issues, you've got people, obviously issues. You've got financial planning, helping people to find a new path forward. I think when you're facing those big decisions, it's essential that you're putting the heart and mind of the people first. And he had that. And so, I appreciated the time he invested in me, but he was grooming me to take over more responsibility. So, it's a win, win. I take over more responsibility, he can do better at what he's better at.
So, I need to clarify, is Spaulding, like the athletic gear Spaulding? I'm still stuck on it, or is Spaulding something else?
Yeah, no, this Spaulding has a U in it. It's near and dear to my heart, but I actually did pretend it was the other Spaulding when I met a basketball player on an airplane from the Celtics, and I said, Oh, here's my Spaulding card. Would you give me an autograph? He didn't have the U, either.
That's fantastic. Did he give you an autograph?
He did. I think it was DJ, anyways. We were up in the Boston area and it's silly me. I was sitting on the arm, I didn't know, but he was tall, and I was waiting for the restroom and I decided to sit on the armchair of the empty seat. And, since he towered over me, I just assumed, and my mom was a huge Celtics fan so, I wanted to get the autograph.
Oh, that's so awesome. I love that. Okay. So, my next question is, General Dynamics is a huge company, and you probably went through a few performance reviews, and we believe if you're afraid of formal assessments, you're going to be hard pressed to identify your strengths, and your weaknesses, and kind of manage those. So, do you have any advice if anybody is fearful of those assessments, performance reviews?
I think, you know before you get to a performance review. Typically, if you're tracking or not, if you're blindsided, then it's, there's something amiss within the company and you but, I've had some great ones, like everything was perfect. And then I had some where the guy was actually trying to get rid of me, and it didn't match up with where I felt my performance was, and it was very uncomfortable. But, I think at the end of the day, if you do a self-assessment error to the side of being kind to yourself, because if you're cutting yourself down, don't expect your boss to build you up. So, that's, from my standpoint of having people set me up that way, I had a guy that didn't do very well for himself on his self-assessment. And I left everything the way it was and he was shocked. I didn't correct it, but I really wasn't at that place with this performance. So, it made it easy.
So, he thought that you would change it and like give him higher a higher score?
He did, and he was disappointed with me. He said, I'm the first one that hasn't done that. I said, well, first of all, I never rate myself lower than where I think I'm performing. So, I don't have that lens, but thank you for sharing. So, I just say, you know, know your strengths, know your weaknesses. And if you know that your boss has a pet peeve, I would address it is, you know what you're working on rather than just leave it as a weakness. It's like, this is how I'm growing in this area. If that's your responsibility.
Did you do performance reviews? Often? I know that some companies will do them once year some will do them quarterly. How does that typically, what, what is your experience with things like that?
My experience was annually. That was enough as far as I'm concerned.
I think a lot of people would say that, especially since they're so formal. I know that, some companies are actually moving to where there, it's open dialogue, and they're constantly trying to collaborate so that don't come up later and that everybody's kind of pulling in the same direction. So, what are some other clues people should listen for in conversations with their managers that might signal the company is open to giving them a raise?
Oh, compliments, for sure. And especially when you're coming in ahead of schedule, money is time. And so if we're doing things in a way that accelerates the path forward, then that's a good clue that you're adding the value to the company that they would want to invest it back into you.
Absolutely, typically we'll ask people to share some of their war stories from, they're from raises. It sounds like you might have a few. So, they're always about maybe something that happened to you or to somebody that you know, as far as a raise or promotion goes, do you have anything that you would like to share with us? Something that might've happened?
Well, sure. When I started my career, it was at Spaulding, and I came in on the really low side of the salary, and companies are bound even back then to a percentage within a given year for employees. And even when you get a promotion, there's somewhat of a percentage tied to your pay. So, I honestly, at some point decided that it was time to move on, and while nothing negative really happened, I felt like I was kind of trapped in this, this do loop. I've got responsibility, and they've given me the most that they feel they can pay me. And so, I did start to look for another job and I did get another job. I left on great terms. All the works caught up with all the friendships in place. Again, it goes back to relationships and I went on and took this new job and applied a lot of the skill sets that I had honed in, and was tracking well, but it was a longer commute. And during a personal part of my life, when I would have preferred not to have that time spent in the car. And they came back to me at Spaulding with an offer with a promotion and a raise because they recognized that I could do the job probably, you know, was the right one for that job. And it was time to reassess where they had labeled me. And that's the extreme, but there are times for that kind of a move. And I didn't think they'd ever hired me back. I didn't go there with this agenda. Oh, you know, I'm going to leave and they're going to want to hire me back at a raise. I went to pursue a new venture and there were things about that that made me feel like this isn't necessarily a long-term thing, but I can help these guys position for this certain market. And when the opportunity came, where Spaulding wanted me back, it was a no brainer for me. And it was, win-win all around. I'm still friends with both companies.
That's fantastic. It sounds like you've done so much and super interesting things too. You've traveled all over the world and you've worked with amazing companies. Is there anything else that you want to add to kind of our national conversation about raises?
I would just say be patient, it's chess, not checkers, not going to come, just because you woke up one morning and found out somebody else is making more money than you. It's about your journey and your value that you add to the organization and how they perceived it adds to either the bottom line or if it's a volunteer organization or a nonprofit, how you're helping the mission expand. But really when we look back and we kind of circle back to priorities, I view everything I do with equal importance, such as my volunteer work at elevation church, I get to help them with their leadership development program for volunteers. I'll put as much time and effort into preparation for that as I will a paid mastermind with the John Maxwell team or leading my defense business development efforts.
Nice. So, I love that expand their mission and then also to continue to prioritize, like, not just at work, but prioritize in your life as well. You don't really think about it that way. I know that for me, sometimes people would say that volunteer work will come to the very bottom of the totem pole, but it doesn't, I don't think that it has to be that way, especially if you're passionate about what you're doing.
Exactly. Yeah. I served for years and years in kids' ministry. I just love children. They give me that energy and you know, I just put as much into the preparation of telling them a story or disciplining them, whatever happened to be as I would my work, because really it's your life, it's your circle of excellence, whether it's a volunteer or not.
Janet, it sounds like you have the most amazing positive mindset. How do you, I'm sure that you get into funks. How do you get out of funks? Because I know that some people are like, people are just so positive all the time. And I think that even the positive people end up in like a funky space. So, I would love to hear how you kind of shift that?
Yeah. I love to walk. So, my healthy funk removal would be to take a walk and be able to talk without a filter to a good friend about my funk. The unhealthy response is wine.
I like wine, a lot of people like wine.
So there's that, you know, there's the healthy response and the not so healthy, but they both definitely make it a little easier.
Okay. So, tell us a little bit more about what you're up to now? That's going to really make an impact on your industry or your life in the next few years.
My goodness, I have been blessed with three major defense clients, actually two major defense clients one's in staffing, and the other is in hardware still with my General Dynamics hardware shelters in specific. So, there's no conflict of interest. That's very essential to my reputation, my long-term relationships. So, those two are just amazing where I can see what those big companies are doing for our military, and how our military is keeping our nation safe. So, that's cool. And then a couple years ago, a woman came to me who owns a small armored vehicle business in Mississippi called CITE, cash in transit, CITE vehicles. They do wonderful armored vehicles and I've been working with her on a long-term strategy, to get into the defense industry. And there's a lot to it and she's wise woman and she's taking her time and she said, no, I've got it. I got the long-term. We're really busy, short term. So, I'm helping them. And we've really landed on a couple of things where we're getting them through cyber-security and we're getting them through a secret facility clearance. These are all things essential to operating in our defense industry. So, that's exciting to see it come together. And, with my team, we do, there are defense companies that need proposal managers. I've got some that'll bring in for those. I can run them as well, but typically I don't have the time to run them right now because they'll take you out for about 90 days and that's all you can do. So, typically we'll bring in somebody on my team that do that and we're happy to support.
That sounds so cool, and super interesting. And like, you're just in your wheelhouse with everything that you're doing. So, I'm really excited for you, that this is such a good spot, it feels like.
It's fun. And it just topped it off when I joined John Maxwell in 2017. So, that it's not what Janet says. It's easier to take it if I say, you know, John Maxwell teaches this, here's a John Maxwell book that might help you out, you know, and it just takes the burden off, you know, my opinion.
John's a smart guy. He's a smart guy.
I really do. I do some Maxwell lines here and there, and that's just fun for me. And I've got the leadership game. I've done that with members of our church, and it's just a wonderful tool. So, yeah, I do have an opportunity to do that once in a while.
That's fantastic. So, where can people connect with you? Do you do leadership training all over or are you just in Charlotte doing things like that?
I'm trying not to travel much right now, but I have been traveling all along. And so, I do travel to places and we'll do resume that, in the meanwhile Zoom is working, but I have a website, the Dividend Factor.com, Dividend Factor LLC.com. And I'm also on LinkedIn as Janet R Guertin, Facebook, Janet Rutherford Guertin. And we have a Dividend Factor page. And my disclaimer is this, my business doesn't really like social media. Different defense is very, very discreet about what they're up to. And so, I don't post a lot in which a lot of people like about me. That's understandable. So, I try to update my web page about once a quarter. It's just not a lot of activity. My personal Facebook page is where I'm most active. And I can honestly say it's mostly sharing things that I think are interesting.
That's awesome. I'll make sure and link all of these things for people in the show notes, as well as the books, The Life Giving Leader, Leadershift, and Developing the Leader Within You 2.0, I believe, is that right? I wrote it down 2.0, so Janet, thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it. And I know that everybody's gonna get a lot of value from this conversation.
Oh, Amanda. Thanks for having me. It was fun talking with you today.
It was fun. Thank you. Now, if you did find some valuable tips in this podcast today, please take a minute to subscribe to the podcast because it will only get better from here, and be sure to share it and tell all of your friends about it on Facebook, and Instagram, and all your social media sites. I would truly appreciate the social media love. Thanks again for listening. And I can't wait to connect with you again. Bye for now.